LDRiders Mailing List Policies and Procedures
Preface
The following document represents a number of significant changes to the
Policies and Procedures under which the LDRider list has been operating. The
list has now grown to the point that certain changes need to be implemented to
reduce the volume of off-topic posts and reduce the time required for list
management. I am also imposing a number of changes that I believe are needed to
reduce the hostility that has erupted from time to time. All of the changes
were developed with the assistance of a group of list members with whom I
reached a consensus. The group advising me included several Iron Butt
veterans and other individuals who have been valuable contributors to this list
and the long distance riding community. One of the list members supporting these
changes is Iron Butt Association President Michael Kneebone, who is personally
interested in seeing this list continue to serve as the principal means of
communication between long distance riders.
Joe Denton owns the list, Tom Austin help me in attempting to keep the list
civil and close to topic. If you receive admin mail from him it holds the same
weight as if I had written it.
Automatic Unsubscription
The most immediate effect of these changes on many list members will be that
you will be automatically unsubscribed when your mailbox fills up and posts
from the LDRider list start "bouncing". This has grown to the point where
bounces can no longer be tolerated. If you notice that you aren't receiving
messages, check whether you have been unsubscribed. Send a message to:
majordomo@vlists.net with the
following message:
which
You will receive a response to your message in a few minutes. If you have not
been unsubscribed, the message will contain the name(s) of the list(s) you are
subscribed to (ldrider or ldrider-digest). If you have been unsubscribed, the
message will tell yout hat LDRider is a closed list. You will have to
re-subscribe.
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Enforcement
After reading the following "Policies and Procedures" you will see that we are
adding some significant new restrictions on off-topic posts. Most list members
will have to modify their posting practices to a certain extent to comply with
these requirements. It might not be easy at first, but the group involved in
developing the new requirements is convinced that it will be in the long term
interests of the list to make these changes.
Enforcement policies are also changing. I can't expect members to abide by the
policies if they are not enforced so don't be surprised if you get warned or
unsubbed for ignoring the new policies. I won't do it publicly and I will allow
members tore-subscribe as long as I believe they will try to follow the new
policies in the future. Let me know your views.
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Agreement and Disclaimer
LDRider (tm) Mailing List Policies and Procedures
Revisions to "Frequently Asked Questions" January, 1999
NOTICE: By subscribing or continuing to subscribe to the LDRider mailing list,
you agree to be bound by this document. You may be unsubscribed at any time if,
in the opinion of the list owner, or a list administrator designated by the list
owner, you have failed to comply with the procedures and policies explained
below.
DISCLAIMERS:
Mail from this list is the exclusive responsibility of the originators. It is
operated by Joe Denton ( who is "the list owner"). He makes and interprets all
of the rules. If you don't like the rules or the list owner's interpretation,
you are free to leave the list.
To the greatest possible extent permitted by law, the list owner disavows,
disclaims and renounces any and all warranty, obligation, liability, or
responsibility for any action, failure to act, debt, guilt, sin, or other
consequence which may arise from any usage, failure to use, or indirect
consequences to subscribers, their employers or employees, agents, heirs or
assigns, common carriers, or any other entity which may in any way become
involved with or impacted by this mailing list.
You, the subscriber, by subscribing or continuing your subscription, agree that
the value of the e-mail discussion you receive from this mailing list is fair
and just consideration and compensation for the obligations and limitations
imposed on you by this document.
The list owner doesn't promise you that anything at all will happen. The list
owner warns you that anything at all MAY happen, and it's all your personal
responsibility, not his or anyone else's.
By subscribing or continuing your subscription, you agree to hold the list
owner and each and all individual subscribers, their heirs and assigns,
employers and employees, agents and all other persons and legal entities
harmless from any claim or legal action which may arise from any usage of this
mailing list, to the greatest extent permitted by law.
This mailing list is run without consent, permission, or knowledge of the
corporations and/or other legal entities which own the computers and Internet
connections over which the mailing list operates. These corporations and/or
other persons and legal entities share no responsibility or liability.
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COPYRIGHT:
The list owner is granted copyright on all messages sent to this mailing list.
The original authors of all posts to the list also have copyright for that
portion of the post that is their original writing. However, all members of the
list agree to allow the reproduction, in whole or in part, of their posts to the
list when such reproduction involves a reply to this list or to a member of this
list. By subscribing or continuing your subscription, you explicitly agree that
you will not re-use these messages outside of this mailing list without
permission of at least one of the copyright holders. Requests for re-use should
be made to the original author, not the list owner. The list owner may (or may
not) approve of re-use in circumstances where the original author is
unavailable or refuses a request.
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WHAT IS LDRIDER ABOUT?
The LDRider mailing list is primarily for sharing information related to long
distance motorcycle riding. Acceptable topics include rally announcements, ride
reports, information regarding good places to sleep and eat, motorcycle and
motorcycle equipment evaluations. A limited amount of off-topic communication
and socializing is permitted but extended off-topic threads are not acceptable.
More details regarding the acceptable content of posts is presented below.
The list owner and many list members are also members of the Iron Butt
Association (IBA) and IBA President Michael Kneebone is a member of the list.
In addition, IBA recommends participation in this list to riders interested in
learning more about long distance riding and communicating with other riders.
However, membership in the IBA is not required for list membership and LDRiders
is operated independent of the IBA.
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HOW DO I SUBSCRIBE TO LDRIDER?
Send a message to me
(joe@denton.org) with a note on who you are
and whether you'd like individual messages or the digest.
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HOW DO I UNSUBSCRIBE?
To voluntarily unsubscribe send mail to
majordomo@vlists.net with no subject in the Subject: line and a message
body consisting of:
unsubscribe ldrider
or
unsubscribe ldrider-digest
NOTE: YOU WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY UNSUBSCRIBED IF YOUR MAILBOX FILLS UP AND
MESSAGES SENT TO YOU FROM LDRIDER ARE "BOUNCED". If you currently have an e-mail
account with an inadequate mailbox capacity to handle the volume of mail
generated by LDRider in combination with your other mail, then change your
Internet Service Provider. Bounces require inordinate amounts of time to be
spent by the list owner and will not be tolerated.
You may also be automatically unsubscribed for violation of the procedures and
policies explained in this document. It is likely that you will be warned first,
unless you post something that is particularly inappropriate. If you are
involuntarily unsubscribed, your ability to resubscribe is at the discretion of
the list owner.
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HOW DO I SEND A MESSAGE TO EVERYBODY?
Address the message to ldrider@vlists.net
and your message will be distributed to all subscribers.
If replying to a mail message use the reply to all feature in your mailer.
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WHO CAN SEND
MAIL TO THE LDRIDER MAILING LIST?
LDRider is a subscription only mailing list and cross-posts will not normally
be forwarded to the list.
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WHAT HAPPENS
WHEN I "REPLY" TO SOMETHING LDRIDER SENT ME?
Depends on your mailer. In general, using most mailers' "REPLY" command will
send your response to the originator NOT just to the entire mailing list. If
you want the reply to go to the list use the reply to all feature in your
mailer
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TEN POSTING CONVENTIONS TO
FOLLOW:
1* Lurk at first. New list members should feel free to introduce themselves when
they join the list. Submit a brief summary of your riding experience and tell
us where you live, but don't start off by asking a lot of questions and making a
lot of comments. Instead, go to the Iron Butt Association web site and start
reading. Then start your questions and comments.
2* Don't lurk forever. If you have been on the list for more than six months and
haven't posted anything, at least submit a post commenting on what you like or
don't like about the list and letting the other list members know that you are
still alive.
3* Be polite. Irreverence is fine, vehement disagreement is expected, and the
occasional unsupported conclusion is inevitable, but personal attacks on other
list members are not appropriate. Remember that e-mail isn't like being there.
People can't hear your tone of voice or see your body language - hence the
development of the smile :-) and frown :-( conventions. But you also need to
think about your writing style and make sure that your message conveys what you
want to say clearly and simply, without making it appear that you are more of a
jerk or a whiner than you actually are. :)
4* Be tolerant. Also remember the above when READING messages. Not everybody
has your superb writing skills, so give them the benefit of the doubt and don't
infer emotion or bad intent from somebody's message without reality. Count to
ten and re-read what you are sending before responding to another post; twice.
5* Be concise. It's true that explanation is often necessary to adequately
communicate technical arguments, so hard-and-fast limits on message size are
not really practical. However, a point made concisely has more impact than one
made with excess verbosity. As Albert Einstein once said:
"Everything should be as simple as possible -- but no simpler."
6* Trim Replies. Trim down the text from the original message so that your
reply includes ONLY the minimum quotation necessary to establish context.
Habitual users of some PC mailers typically seem to have a particular problem
with this, often inserting 2 lines of reply at the top of ~100 lines of quoted
material. This is irritating to readers of your message, who end up scanning
all that quoted volume looking for new material and not finding any.
7* Identify yourself. It is also considered good form on the Internet to have a
"signature" that reasonably identifies you. "CB Handle" style screen names like
AOL uses are NOT an example of this. A particularly bad instance is when a new
user blurts out a request for information with no signature and only a screen
name; no information on location at all. This makes it very difficult to respond
to the info request without inflicting the response on all the subscribers of
the mailing list.
Many of the people on this list have met each other, and over the course of
time have gotten to know each other well enough that they truncated names or
started identifying themselves by some funny nickname or legendary feat. Even
at that, their address usually provides more complete ID and so this approach
can be acceptable. But to start up on the list with nothing but a cryptic ID
puts some people off.
You should remember also that many people are reluctant to respond when a post
comes only with an anonymous ID with no name and little address info.
8* Label each post with a specific subject line. If the subject is BMW lowering
the price on 3-spoke wheels, then use a subject line like "BMW lowers price on
3-spoke wheels" rather than "BMW lowers prices" or "Check this out".
9* Change the subject line of a post whenever you change or supplement the
subject. If you respond to a post about "The best tires for the Honda ST1100"
and add information about tires for a BMW K1100LT, then change the subject line
to something like "Tires for ST1100 and K1100LT". The only information you are
posting is about tires for a BMW, then use a whole new subject line.
10* Ride. The best way to learn about and enjoy long distance motorcycling is
from the saddle, not a computer.
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TEN THINGS TO AVOID
SENDING TO LDRIDER:
1* Do Not use of profanity. Since the origination of the LDRider list, the size
and diversity of the membership has grown substantially and many members object
to the use of profanity. Reserve any profanity for private posts and keep it
off the list.
2* Do Not use the list for commercial purposes. If you want to sell
motorcycle-related items you personally own, you may post descriptions and
prices to the list. Don't repeat the post and don't respond to such a post with
a message to the whole list. This includes SPAM if it happens to get through
to the list.
Participation of a purely commercial nature is NOT welcome here, EVEN IF it's
motorcycle-specific. However, if you join in our chatter, attend our events,
and generally behave like you're one of the group, and you ALSO have a
business which lets you answer questions, respond to wanted-to-buy ads, etc.
with commercial information related to your business, then that's OK. It's also
OK for such individuals to post information regarding new products that they
believe will be of general interest to the long distance riding community.
3* Minimize off-topic postings. If you are a long time list member and have
gotten to know numerous other members, either electronically or in person, it
is acceptable for you to send messages to the list regarding significant issues
affecting you personally (such as, a recent marriage, death in the family,
career move, etc.). However, all such posts should be labeled "OFFTOPIC" and
responses to such posts should be to the originator and NOT to the whole list.
If the off-topic issue likely to result in a series of posts over time,
subsequent posts on the same topic should be sent privately to those members of
the list that have expressed an interest and NOT sent to the entire list.
Posting of jokes is acceptable provided they are motorcycle related and posted
with a subject line beginning with "JOKE". As with other off-topic material,
responses to jokes should be to the originator and not the entire list. The
prohibition on labeling of jokes is waived for all posts originating on April 1
of each year.
4* Avoid certain subjects altogether. Posts related to religion, politics, gun
control, abortion, impressionistic painting, or other subjects unrelated to
long-distance motorcycling are taboo on this list. Although many list members
have strong opinions on such subjects, this list is not the place to talk about
them unless the discussion also pertains specifically to Long Distance Riding. A
rare example is the legality of carrying a weapon on a motorcycle over state or
country borders. Viruses and rumors of such can be sent to the list owner (Joe
Denton) but NEVER to the list itself.
5* Avoid changing the subject. In responding to a post about batteries, don't
start talking about tires. Keep on the subject of the original post or start
over with a fresh subject line.
6* Don't just say "me too". If the only information communicated with a reply
to a post is that you agree with what the author had to say, it may be
appropriate to respond privately, not to the entire list. However, posts to the
list expressing agreement with another member's opinion are acceptable when
there is obvious disagreement among list members.
7* Don't excessively trim the original post you are replying to. Leave some of
the original text from each post you respond to. Although the text of a message
you are responding to should seldom be repeated in its entirety, leave enough of
the original text in your reply to provide context for readers of your reply
who may not have seen the original post.
8* Avoid flame wars. If you feel a need to publicly disagree with someone
else's post, do so politely. State why you disagree without adding insulting,
personal attacks.
9* Avoid the use of HTML. Hypertext Markup Language (HTML) is the standard
language for web page construction and it is the default setting for the
popular Microsoft Outlook Express e-mail program. Don't use it. If you are an
Outlook Express user, change to "plain text". Using HTML creates a mess to the
list and may get you unsubscribed. To switch to plain text in Outlook Express,
use "Tools", "Options", "Send" and click on "Plain Text".
10* Avoid the use of attachments. Do not attach files to your posts unless they
are going to individual list members who have asked for them or who you are
reasonably sure would want them.
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----------------
Joe Denton
Thanks to Carl Paukstis, Sam Lepore, Tom Austin, Brian Curry and others who may
or may not know they helped with this.